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Ketone Esters Ketones Kieran Clarke Videos

Behind the World’s First Ketone Ester ft. Kieran Clarke || HVMN Enhancement Podcast: Ep. 48

November 6, 2018

Exciting podcast discussing the Ketone Ester


To watch the YouTube video: Behind the World’s First Ketone Ester

Full Transcript:

hi welcome to this week’s episode of the
human enhancement podcast and this is a
really special one and that’s because
through our other episodes we’ve been
inviting on authors researchers
practitioners and talking about you know
what what they’ve been up to and this
episode we’re gonna talk about what
we’ve been up to and it’s super super
exciting and interesting they’ll give
you a little bit of a background as you
know we started off as neutral box books
on nootropics and and as I think
longtime listeners can anticipate we’ve
been talking more and more expanding our
scope really talking about biohacking in
general and ketosis and fasting and
that’s because we’ve been working on
this exclusive partnership with the
University of Oxford for a long time now
and excited to introduce to you
professor Karen Clark she is professor
of physiological biochemistry from the
University of Oxford and the inventor of
a ketone ester called Delta G that were
exclusively manufacturing and producing
and fulfilling and launching as human
ketone available today November 6 so
this is a huge breakthrough in science
as well as human performance so I’m
really excited to dive into the
discussion and discuss the the origin
that research the history and the
potential use cases here so Kiran really
excited to have you on the show today
thank you for having me
so we’ve been talking a lot about
ketogenic diets fasting ketones over the
last few months and we’re all building
up to this moment here for finally
launching human ketone which is based on
a decade plus of research from from
yourself in a research group and it’s
based around a ketone ester that you’ve
dubbed Delta G so you know there’s a lot
that’s a lot to cover here and why we
think this is a huge paradigm shifting
invention and technology but let’s start
with the basics and then from there dive
into a little of the history and some
use cases and speculation of where the
technology the research should be going
in the future so what is all the hoopla
with Quito Nestor Exxon just ketone so I
know that if for folks that been
following this space this has been sort
of rumored as a Holy Grail technology
for the last several years can you can
you summarize the excitement for us here
right so the ketone ester is a way of
taking of consuming ketones without
having to consume salt so so you don’t
have to have any salt with it at all and
which is a good thing because you can
you can drink and raise your P tone
levels as high as you really want right
with and with a ketone ester well and in
particular beta-hydroxybutyrate
heat ernest yeah and I think that’s an
important point because you know a large
part of you know our community are
interested in key of genetic diets or
fasting and of course you know we think
that one of the main drivers of the
benefits of those protocols is elevation
of ketone levels but the downside is
that it is very hard to elevate and
sustain very high levels of ketones I
mean you have to be fasting for multiple
days or eating very very strict diet you
know upwards of 80 percent 90 percent of
your calories from fat which is it’s
quite hard to maintain and perhaps not
healthy from a cardiovascular
perspective I think there’s some open
research and debate around dietary fat
consumption and and blood lipid levels
we could talk a little bit about that
so the ketone ester I think you
mentioned you basically and and through
the product that we’re launching on
November 6 we can essentially manipulate
key thin levels arbitrarily we can dial
it up and down yes
so that sounds
you know very you know game-changing so
so how did this even come to existence
I give giveth gave us a background in a
history of your research and how you
enter the space of ketone metabolism and
then from there what are the ketone
ester you know pop up okay so well when
I moved to Oxford in 1991 dr. Richard
beech came and asked me to do some
experiments on and their mom machine and
magnetic resonance okay machine this is
like a this is like a precursor to the
modern mr this is a precursor and what
he wanted me to do was to perfuse hearts
in a magnet using a ketone and when we
did that we showed that it made their
hearts much more efficient and could
replace insulin so the ketone could
replace the insulin and you know fast
forward 10 years and 2003 and DARPA
wanted a way to send their soldiers into
a battlefield with a really efficient
food and we said alright give us ten
million dollars we’ll do it for you
and so we invented the ketone ester I
mean it it sounds very simple but we
didn’t know what we were going to invent
we had to actually search around for it
but we knew we weren’t going to use a
salt so we wanted to avoid the salt and
we wanted to avoid acetyl acetate as
well so we wanted to use
beta-hydroxybutyrate somehow and so
that’s what we did and so now all of our
ketone ester is virtually hydroxy
butyrate the hydroxy fish media I think
that’s absolutely I think I think that’s
a very critical point so this is a
primer for folks that are a little bit
you need to get up to speed on the
basics of ketosis there’s three main key
to embodies that the human body produces
beta-hydroxybutyrate acetyl acetate and
more or less a waste product called
acetone and the two substrates that are
used by the body are beta hydroxy
butyrate and acetoacetate so can you
talk about the differences between the
three ketone bodies and a little bit
more detail
how it affects the prep cycle how it
affects mitochondrial efficiency okay so
well this is the reason why we wanted to
use bee-eater hydroxy butyrate was
because it’s taken up immediately into
the mitochondria and then it’s made into
acetoacetate using beta hydroxy butyrate
dehydrogenase and so and that produces
the nadh which is exactly what you want
because you want to produce that to go
into complex one in if feeds straight
away into complex one so you don’t have
any trouble with transport it into the
mitochondria and then you make a pseudo
acetate that feeds into the krebs cycle
however you if you feed acetyl acetate
then it goes backwards and you oxidize
the mitochondria which is exactly what
you don’t want to do so so that’s one
reason so you make beta hydroxy butyrate
makes acetyl acetate which is good and
then acetoacetate forms acetone but it’s
just a breakdown product and the acetone
is not used for energy at all right it
just reflects the amount of acetoacetate
you’ve got in you you’re putting root
and and because our beta hydroxy
butyrate doesn’t yet have you when you
smell you can smell us an acetone on a
diabetic breath or people that eat keto
it’s you know people call it the kid Oh
breath is a little bit fruity or a
little bit funky smelling that’s because
well yeah and that that means are doing
it right because they think a lot of
people that I come across in the
community talked about eating a
ketogenic diet but you know it’s they’re
not you measure their blood ketones
you’re not really there I mean it’s so
it’s so easy to eat accidentally too
many carbs any sauce is like full of
carbs oftentimes people eat too much
meat or steak or protein which is not
the point of Accio genetic diet it’s
eating a lot of fat which is not very
hard to do I think you brought up some
very technical points and I want to just
tease into a little bit more so both
beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate
are functional substrates were asked to
ins
a waste product I think there’s some
speculation it’s a signaling molecule
but so these what do you think do you
think it’s a signaling molecule not
really you think it is a pure waste
product yeah I think it’s yeah it’s too
slow for the formations too slow and it
depends too much on the Seto asset age
okay so you think that the signaling
fact or the signaling effects if there
were it would be the aged beer as you’d
ask themselves okay so I wanted to touch
on the point around bhp and acetoacetate
so these are floating around within
within the cell and usually you know yes
so ideally they’re absorbed in this cell
so they can actually be used and these
two molecules convert back and forth
into each other right so my
understanding is that bhp and
acetoacetate well bhp needs a convert
into acetoacetate for it to be actually
up taken into the mitochondria correct
okay but deep okay true so but bhp needs
to be converted into acetyl acetate for
to be actually used yes yes yes to be
used in the crypt sighs yes restroom
so the interesting step is that if you
fully in put a lot of acetoacetate
because of equilibrium of pseudo acetate
converts backwards into beta hydroxy
butyrate and I think what you’re saying
is that that is an oxidation step which
makes the mitochondria less efficient
whereas it’s a bhp conversion in the
pseudo acetate is a reduction of
reaction increases energetics of the
mitochondria is that correct that’s
great okay so when you make NADH NADH is
what Cribs cycle makes right so it so
the krebs cycle is also making NADH but
but so is the bigger hydroxybutyrate
dehydrogenated making NADH as well and
that’s exactly what you want in the
mitochondria okay so we talked quite
deeply on the biochemistry there but you
know what can the in
the the the listener out there you know
apply this to so I know some of the most
compelling publicly released data is
around athletic performance
it’s the the trials that you ran and it
when published in cell metabolism last
summer
can you talk about that research and
some of the the key results from from
that paper yes oh well really that was a
time trial on a bicycle okay and and the
only reason that we published it in that
paper was because one of the reviewers
asked us for attention and and we
actually haven’t published all of the
performance data at all so I’ve talked
about it in lectures but we haven’t
published it yet okay so so we have done
rowing studies and we’ve done other time
trials as well so and and so we know how
have a ketone works and the best way to
make it work as well so what are the
what are the the key points there so you
know I can summarize you know we’re
enhancing aerobic performance at least
two percent and also enhancing recovery
rates in terms of the language like
engine repletion and protein resynthesis
he dive into some of the numbers and
technicals there so um well as you say
well let’s say you’re you do a 30-minute
row then then you can make up 55 meters
in the 30-minute row which is a lot
which is the difference between a gold
and silver medal for example yeah I mean
that sounds like that’s a quite a few
bullet lines that’s that’s like gold and
like not even being like 15th place 55
meters okay right right so so anyway it
makes a big difference um but it really
only works if you have glucose with it
so you need to have you know it’s
standard glucose drink whatever you have
normally and and that’s because of
anaplerotic so you need to be able to
feed in the Krebs cycle from
carbohydrate nativities right and I
think that’s a that’s a great subtle
point to bring up where ketones are a
fuel substrate for the cells
glucose I mean I think there’s some
demonization happening with sugars these
days and I think first for but but you
know for some I think from reasonable
position because insulin resistance
pre-diabetes is one of the biggest
killers and biggest issues in our
society today I think there’s some some
valid concern around having too much
refined carbohydrate we’ll put it that
way but you need glucose for sort of too
much rice as well right and too much oh
yeah I want to talk about Dex I think
you have a very interesting perspective
on the ketogenic diet and how perhaps
the innovation the availability of
Nestor’s might be able to replace or
deprecated some other practices
happening today but before getting into
that I want to just close the point here
on performance perspective if you have a
lot of glucose your that’s okay but I
guess in normal physiology you either
have high ketones and high fat
metabolism and low glucose or kind of
inverted you very low ketones high
availability of carbs and there’s
different performance profiles for each
kind of metabolic state
I think the innovation with the ketone
ester is that you can have a novel state
where you can have high ketones and high
glucose and or high availability of glue
really okay can you can you explain us
all – you know I know I put but an
aerobic exercise foot for Sprint’s let’s
say you don’t want the ketone you don’t
want anything ketone and you don’t want
that right so so you just want car sure
yeah and that’s where they end glycogen
that’s what you need but they’re
sprinting so anything under let’s say a
performance under less than 20 minutes
you’re not going to see any effect of
the ketone at all and you really just
want to stick to your comps because
because a minutes
partly oxidize molecule and so you don’t
need as much oxygen really to break it
down however if you’re doing air aerobic
exercise and let’s say you’re running an
ultra marathon then you really want fat
and you want
to mobilize fat so and that’s what these
people going on a fat diet before an
ultramarathon
do there be they make your bodies
increase all the enzymes of fat
metabolism right
and so so they so they really do
mobilize fat and that’s what they’re
using but they can’t sprint right so you
know so that they don’t run out of
glycogen if they try to sprint too much
okay and then how does keto masters play
so ketone ester I think what I was the
point I was trying to make was that
ketone esters mmm
essentially preserve and help maintain
your glycogen reserves as you’re doing
these longer aerobic existences so
essentially you have a little bit of a
double of a fuel band versus just having
a limited amount of glucose and and and
look and so you just have like a more
available fuel in your inner energy yes
exactly so it so the ketone is is really
like um it’s like a fat diet but in a
bottle you know so that so that you can
have that n head carbs and so you don’t
lose your glycogen but that you do
increase your fat metabolism so so the
ketone helps to your fat metabolism as
well yeah and I think that that’s a good
transition into like ketogenic diets and
what you think of all the diet protocols
that are sort of you know in and out of
vogue so again I think a lot of the
interest around the ketogenic diet is
around elevating ketone levels and and
people obviously see a lot of
interesting results with you know
quickly dropping a significant amount of
weight but what are the downsides there
in your opinion and what do you think
the ketone ester you know human ketone
is going to be able to do to but you
know how does that play you know what is
that this new lever it allows people to
do now okay alright so so when you go on
a real ketogenic diet I don’t mean a
healthy diet so some people go on a
healthy diet but it’s not really his
genic so when you go on a heated
and that’s high fat and what it doesn’t
turns on your fat metabolism for sure
and but it down regulates your glucose
metabolism and you really need glucose
when you haven’t got oxygen so that’s
that’s what you need and it down
regulates that so you if you have a
heart attack or if you want sprint or
you know if you have a stroke or
traumatic injury you can’t use the
glucose that you need because and you’ve
lack of oxygen you need glucose you
can’t use it and so what will happen
with the ketone it let’s use that
glucose so the ketone will help use the
glucose and we’ll stop the fat
metabolism so in some ways you’re saying
that the ketogenic diet is like like an
imperfect form of elevating or getting
the right results because there’s
associated well or it is what the right
results are if you’re trying to lose
weight or you’re trying to go on an
outer marathon it’s the best way to do
it at the moment but now that we’re
going to have the ketone ester being
sold then I think people will actually
end up using that so look but not for
Sprint’s only only for marathon but
perhaps you use ketone Esther or human
ketone as a recovery drink after a
sprint cuz I think there’s so I’ll sure
and I think can we so I think there’s
interesting data around the glycogen
synthesis and protein synthesis can you
talk a little bit about the the recovery
side of the ketone Esther oh yes so so
after exercise if you have a ketone
drink plus a carb drink you have to have
the cards as well if you have the ketone
drink and and the calves drink you will
replenish your glycogen levels much
faster and also what will happen with
the ketone it replenishes the protein as
well so so and it also prevents the
breakdown of
protein after you’ve exercised so if
you’ve got a low glucose level then you
you will continue to break muscle down
to make glucose so if you’ve performed
and broken muscle down because you
needed the glucose then the ketone will
actually replenish it a lot better so
you know I think that for ultra marathon
runners then it will help with the
protein breakdown that stop the protein
breakdown and it will provide energy as
well yeah I mean I think we’ve talked
about this multiple times I think really
I think the way I’ve been starting a
thing about ketones is that we should
think about them as a fourth
macronutrient or a fourth food group
right we know fats carbs proteins and in
terms of metabolism proteins really
devolve Binta into sugar into glucose
that’s really fat and in carbohydrate
and then fats convert into ketones but
we’ve never been able to directly access
ketones that’s always having to be
snuggly always always has must be
studied via fad and now with ketones
directly through the ketone ester we can
finally unpack that and then to actually
to directly access a fuel substrate that
has very interesting performance
profiles so I mean so I think that opens
a bit interesting
you know plethora of research I know
that you know we eat a bunch of other
research collaborators have come to you
and a lot of ideas around which
indications or which use cases should we
be excited about if you just look at the
general literature on ketosis in general
a lot of exciting results around
metabolic syndromes cognitive issues too
you know other increased performance and
other aspects may be space travel can we
use ketone esters not only for special
operators you know in the battlefield
today but also perhaps fueling the
mission to Mars
what we can talk and dive into each of
those but you know what personally
excites you the most in terms of future
directions I know that well it’s taken
you know a decade plus of research going
from the initial DARPA grant to now or
it’s finally being run at the you know
the the massive scale to bring this
commercially to availability so what you
know are you looking for most excited
about sort of in the in the next chapter
of this venture well as you know
exercise was just a way of showing that
it worked to provided energy and sort of
being a scientists we not all the way
interested well I’m not all that
interested in exercise but uh but it
really will help with various diseases
and a lot of the diseases that we have
caused by just having too much food so
so you know until fifty or so years ago
people were half starving you know
people were hungry people went hungry
and nobody was really very fair sort of
when I was a child I didn’t know anybody
who was fat I just didn’t know anybody
and that’s because they you know you got
just enough to eat and it was probably
of the highly well-balanced diet but you
know you just didn’t have excess food
and so now we’re suffering from
Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s and obesity
and diabetes and all these things that
are caused just by too much food and and
never ever being catotti
so never producing the ketones that
protect and so now we get cancers that
we never got before so you know for
example pancreatic cancer never was seen
liver cancer wasn’t seen and now we have
all of these diseases them that suddenly
appear and people say oh it’s because
we’re living longer but this is not true
they you know they just caused you know
loss of limbs to do to diabetes is
caused by just eating too much and not
exercising
yeah I guess life expectancy has you
know it has tapered off I mean it is
longer but the average is probably
different from like the median in terms
of if you are a healthy person in today
versus a healthy person that 50s you
know life expectancy would probably be
fairly comparable and what it’s because
of I guess accidents are the things that
one might see a difference yeah well I
could see an argument you just look at
the life expectancy charts there is it
has been like an increase over the years
oh yes there’s been certainly been an
increase I mean and a lot of that is due
to antibiotics okay okay fighting war
yeah so since the war you know having
antibiotics and antivirals the nose
sorts of things really have helped and
also just simple hygiene so you know
it’s sort of having running water and
and lose that are inside instead of
outside yeah really
yeah no I think this if if we can really
prove this out as you know as we hope as
we as we dearly hope I think I’ve seen
people write about this this technology
as something that could be as impactful
as penicillin which is which would be
you know obviously huge yes
honor if we were able to make that kind
of impact but I don’t think it’s
necessarily overly crazy because if you
look at I know there’s companies already
like starting to demonstrate that or
groups people starting to demonstrate
ketosis in general as a helpful tool so
you might have heard avert a health
which is a Silicon Valley based company
that helps coach people through
ketogenic diets in the hopes of
reversing type 2 diabetes and of course
the ketogenic diet you’re looking to
reduce the carbohydrate intake and
elevate ketone levels I think you know I
think it’s interesting too now what if
you didn’t have to do a chaotic day but
you have really high ketone levels we
can finally now study that in a very
robust way so that’s a very interesting
area I think personally
also very exciting for me was the
potential around cognitive dysfunction
so there is a paper that you you
co-authored with Mary Newport around the
use of ketone esther for for alzheimer’s
or at least a case study of it N equals
one one so again you know very
speculative very early but you know why
do you think it worked in that case like
what what do you think was a core
phenomenon driving the improvement in
Alzheimer’s symptoms using a ketone um
well out summers has been called type 3
diabetes so if you look at an outsider’s
brain it can’t take up glucose so and it
doesn’t take up glucose but it does take
up ketones and so it can use ketones for
energy and that’s why it worked but you
know we really do have to do a proper
study but out Simon’s studies are really
really difficult to do yeah and my
understanding is no on my list I think
also I think it’s also that I think
there’s so many ideologies for
Alzheimer’s it sounds like they’re they
might all be well well just well III
would say that some of the recent
thinking is that Alzheimer’s is really a
cluster of symptoms but what is the root
cause maybe there’s different root
causes maybe some are insulin resistant
based and some are you know through a
different pathway so yeah I think it’s
it is it is a subtle art to figure out
you know which types of cognitive
functions we could potentially be
helpful for exactly I’m you know we
don’t know whether it will help vascular
dementia you know where people have
little strokes all the time room and
that’s usually caused by hypertension
pressure it but but certainly when you
look at people who are diabetic two
diabetics or even just obesity there are
three times more likely to have out
Somers disease yeah so that you know so
there has to be some sort of cause there
right
yeah so I I think that it is related
that they are related yeah yeah I mean
and again it’s like again these are a
lot of these are correlations but you
look at like Alzheimer’s obesity
diabetes I mean these are the same kind
of curves right this same again a
correlation is not causation but there’s
likely to be some environmental variable
that is it was introduced or some
lifestyle change introduced in the last
50 or so years when this really started
taking off that you know it’s humans
have not changed in the last 50 years
you know like we you know genetically
are gonna be very similar so you know
folks that walk around when Jesus was
around or you know folks that around
when you know Genghis Khan around I mean
again the same species and they didn’t
have these kind of problems so it’s
interesting to start unpacking this I
think and this with this tool with this
lens yes by the I absolutely think
you’re right I think you know as you
know our first product human ketone is a
sports performance product but I think
we’re very excited about what other
products we can develop together the
tackle potentially all these different
use cases I know that we’ve had dr.
Thomas Sikh freed from Boston College on
our show he is really talking about an
interesting theory around how not all
cancers but certain types of cancers are
you know use glucose and can only use
glucose as a fuel substrate so he’s been
experimenting and looking at kinetic
diets as a way to decrease availability
of glucose increase the ketones that
fuel the healthy cells as a way to at
the very least be a nutritional adjunct
for cancer what do you think do you
think that I mean again early and I
think you know we wanted you know again
we want to book position human ketone as
a sports drink and it’s an enhanced
performance but I’m curious what do you
think of that theory that seek free is
talking about oh well I think he’s
correct I think he’s quite brilliant you
know but um we have to show whether the
ketogenic whether our exogenous ketone
help at all so I’ve heard push back
shine some cancers really like ketones
though yeah yeah that’s right people do
report that and it could be could be
true so folks out there looking to
experiment in and be a biohacker here
make sure you know make sure that again
consult admit you know professional your
medical practitioner and make sure that
the cancer type that one is looking to
observe is glycolytic or or you know
something that uses ketones well
obviously we don’t want to exacerbate no
we don’t we don’t but um I do think that
there are a lot of glycolytic tumors
around but you know we you will inhibit
the glycolysis my understanding is that
looking to research a little bit is that
most cancers are glycolytic but again I
mean this is I think these diseases that
we’re talking about our probably are the
biggest killers of modern humans mmm I
mean it’s not it’s not it’s not famine
anymore it’s not it’s something it’s
it’s our internal machines breaking down
so obviously a lot of money a lot of
effort has been focused on doing this so
if we can maybe play a small part in
providing a tool that might be helpful I
think that would be very exciting yes I
agree what other areas I mean I think we
I know that you know as a scientist
you’re a curious around the disease side
but I think I know you know there’s
interesting literature
I think NASA has looked at ketones
obviously the military with DARPA have
looked at ketones and and and and me as
a biohacker you know and coming in
starting in getting excited about the
space from a performance-enhancing
perspective because luckily I don’t
think I have any of those conditions yet
crossing fingers that’s less practical
for me and I think for a lot of our
audience members who are optimizers and
looking to go from you know the hundred
percent to one hundred two percent in
performance
what can we speculate or
or explore in that area yeah I I do
think that people have to work it out
for themselves so nobody’s you know
people are just not the same
no and so I think that people perform
differently they you know they just do
different things and so people will work
it out so for example you know a cyclist
may decide that they don’t want it for
performance they want it for recovery or
you just people will work it out right
themselves right when yeah when they’ve
got access to eration so before nobody
really had very much we never had very
much because we were making in the lab
but you know I just think that people
will work it out why why is it why was
it why was it sort of manufacturer why
did it take so long again like the DARPA
grant the moat the ten $1 DARPA ground
was in 2003-2004 I I can imagine people
asking that’s a good chunk of money and
it’s 13 14 years later
safety studies I mean when you think of
it it was something that was brand-new
it was a new molecule right and so you
have to go through all the safety
studies and you know go and see the FDA
you know every couple of weeks and sort
of work out what you have to do now and
DARPA required this student and I think
this is interesting to talk about the
regulatory perspective here because I
think we’re talking about you know the
enhancement
perspectives and all the different
performance profile here but this is a
food this is a food product this is not
a pharmaceutical this is not a
supplement this is not a calories in it
and I think DARPA required you to prove
that it as a food yes they do they did
indeed and and we had to get we had to
grass it before we were allowed to go
into humans at all right so we had it
grass then and then we had to regress
for athletes so so we’ve regress it for
athletes but it but also it was terribly
expensive to make so because of the is
the car or compound room which
yeah so we we don’t use the resumes so
other things on the market such as salt
use resumes and really you know so they
use the DL form but the the D form with
what what the human body makes and users
and and and the old form is only in
really many small quantities and you
don’t see it ever in the blood room and
it’s not used for energy and so we just
didn’t want to risk that because we you
know we’re old and we know that the lid
amide and what happens when you don’t
care about the rep you know about using
a receiver yeah and I think I think that
was prescient in terms of some of the
emerging literature around racemic
examines ketones where they weren’t
necessarily necessarily enhancing
performance but actually perhaps
detracting from performance so I think
that is an important point to bring out
is that human ketone the ketone ester
that Kieran invented here is a fully
isomeric li identical to what the body
naturally produces so this is a pure DBH
be delivered into your system without
any salt without any extra carriers can
you describe the chemistry like how how
is it so pure how does it all convert
into the body and what is the compound
like we talked about the ketone ester
but what does it look like like what
does it look like it looks like beta
hydroxy butyrate which is that one of
the ketone we want here attached
attached for an oxygen molecule to
butanediol and butanediol goes straight
as soon as you you consumer to the drink
then it breaks down in the gut but
esterase is in the gut when lots of our
foods come as esters so this is the
common thing and we’ve got s traces
everywhere in the body but at the brakes
of town in the gut the beta hydroxy
butyrate goes straight into muscle cells
for example or are all cells no doubt
and the butanediol goes to the liver
has immediately made into beta hydroxy
butyrate so the whole of the molecule is
the 1d beta hydroxy butyrate in effect
so and that’s what you want so you don’t
want any any waste of anything you want
to use the home while ago I think that’s
why it’s elevates ketone levels so
efficiently I think as you know Briana
did a lot of the pharmacokinetics on all
types of dodges ketones and I think and
I think that was also accepted for
publication recently too in frontier in
physiology showing that it is just a far
superior delivery of ketones and
anything else that exists like salsa so
yes yeah yeah yeah that’s right
yeah I think that when you get up to the
high levels of salt then people start to
really feel ill yeah well yeah what do
you think of you know all the existing
methods I mean people talk about MCT
oils or you know eating butter and in
their coffee as a way to like increase
their fat consumption do you think
there’s any sense of that do you think
that that’s going to be just deprecated
as the intermediate step in terms of
just getting to direct you know ketones
with it with the ketone ester yeah I I
think the butter is just nuts I mean I
love butter but I don’t eat tons of it
you know and I just think it’s crazy
eating saturated things and of course
the MCT they don’t raise your
cholesterol or anything but it’s limited
by the amount you can eat
depending on how solid your gut is
really so you know if you’re really
you’re desperate to raise your ketone
levels then you know you have to use the
MCTS but it doesn’t raise them very high
so you know it’s less than 1 million
molar and so you know it but it but of
course people should do what they find
best and if they want to eat a ton of
butter so be it you know it’s a free
world yeah it’s a free country but you
know the bow
a hacker and myself is you can do
whatever you want but but you should
measure it right I think if people are
just throwing a bunch inputs into your
system you know that’s all fine and well
but I think you know what really helped
me learn and dive deep into the space
they’re just measuring how these inputs
affected you right like you should
measure ldlc you should measure
triglycerides is eating a lot of butter
and in carbs at the same I don’t know
whatever regimen you’re doing is that
impacting your biomarkers in the right
way that you want them to be and I think
that helps them lighten a lot of the
answers I think it is going to be
personal as you mentioned before to each
specific person and their genetic makeup
and their use cases so it is a bit of a
personalized journey but I think one
must get educated so hopefully you know
in this conversation or we’re throwing
out areas of further discussion and
further exploration sure that’s right
and and people should also look at the
fat in their liver as well so it’s not
good you know that leads to little liver
cancer eventually right and so I think
you know liver fat all those sorts of
things they should be looking at so
people should just know I you know
somebody should start a company that
just doesn’t quite cheaply does you know
the referred lunch ends well that sort
of thing and lads you know you say that
you don’t have to go and buy your own
mama tea and just turn up and have it
done well okay that’s an RFP from
Professor Clark here Karl talk to me as
as human and as you know representing
the role we hear we’d love to engage
with I think that’s absolutely right I
made that exactly how I think I think we
talked about it I think for human and
for a partnership here we are producing
I think an interesting input into the
human system and we need more and more
output tracking devices and part and
companies and partners so weird with
because I think that our input is very
interesting and we want to show that it
works and if you can show it in a liver
fat measure or ketone levels then
a very natural partnership so reach out
if you have these biomarker output
devices out there I actually know that a
lot of people when I do talks come up
and say oh I’m working on this you know
these all these devices so I love those
conversations I think that I think one
of the things we initially connected
over was the notion that humans should
be thought it could be a platform of
innovation where novel inputs into the
system and then give me optimized and
personalized given you know the
availability of ubiquitous biomarker
tracking but also I think what what it
means is that people have to take
responsibility their own body and lots
of people don’t want to do that you know
they want a magic bullet yeah but I
think I I am least hopeful that the
culture is changing I know within the
human community and in our fasting
community more and more people are
getting up to speed on you know they’re
buying ketone you know blood pricks and
these are relatively healthy people I
know every time I speak to a audience
there’s more or or have you know group
dinners with with friends and colleagues
that people are wanting to learn as a
put anything that’s very different then
you know maybe twenty thirty forty years
ago where I think the the medical
practitioner or the doctor or the
medical and you know was like a door
tative monolith and you as a layman it
was like okay I just need to like eat
the prescription and didn’t follow
whatever they say but I think due to the
internet I think due to just some mass
availability of information you know
smarter you know or at least curious
people can at least dive into it and
have a conversation and and understand
and it’s more of a partnership model I
think within healthcare and I think yes
we’ve seen that in every other industry
we see that with computing we assume
that with other every other industry but
I think it’s about time for health
perhaps yes I agree I agree and and also
I think of course that our
we’ll help with aging yeah so amongst
other things so so we hope with aging
and yeah it was talked about that I
almost react like that’s a very
interesting kind of worm so I believe I
saw your your you’re one of your main
collaborators dr. Richard reach
published a review around the potential
for ketones for triggering the Fox o3
pathway which is associated with
enhancing telomere telomerase activity
which extends telomere length so yeah
can you can you dive into that but also
you know that it helps with free
radicals and so this is why we’re
talking about Mars because radiation is
terrible once you you know you’re gonna
out of the atmosphere so so you know
that’s healthy people using it for
radiation but you can also use it sort
of externally on your skin so against UV
damage so so there’s lots of things that
we probably haven’t even thought of as
as well as things that we have thought
of yes I think wearing you know from a
coming from a skeptics perspective why
does this affect so many things you know
we talking about it you know you know
improving athlete performance improving
special operator performance and then
we’re talking about you know potential
uses for different diseases now we’re
talking about it for preventing
radiation damage why why is this like
why does it sound like too good to be
true I think because it’s something that
we’ve always had to survive it’s a
survival thing and and there’s no human
being that hasn’t that can’t produce
kittens I mean you just don’t live if
you can’t produce kittens you absolutely
need them to survive and you need them
to survive starvation or just even just
not eating for you know for ten hours or
something if you didn’t have ketones
you’re a goner and so I so I think that
you’ve always had ketones and we’ve
always had high ketone levels generally
in the population so so you know we’ve
always been katatak at various stages
hostile you know babies are often
newborns are katatak yeah ketonic yeah
and they survive on Peters until after
this yes the several days even and so
and also pregnant women get be become
quiet katatak as well and and so they’re
certainly used and and because there’s
such an efficient fuel and as long as
you’ve got oxygen but in any way and so
I think that we’ve evolved with these
and then suddenly we haven’t got them
suddenly with all this food we we don’t
have very high levels at all
you know yeah I mean I’m sure my ketone
levels haven’t been up for years
instead we’re not direct over 2g but
anyway so so I think that that’s this is
sort of like a countermeasure and sort
of saying all right we’re going back to
you know pre well pre-war actually or
probably during just you know during the
war we didn’t have enough to eat but we
ate when we did he they really studied
the food that we had to eat you know to
make sure that we had balanced diets so
we were eating better during the war
than we are now
yeah yeah I’m curious you talked about a
free radicals so if we can died a little
bit into the biochemistry there how does
it reduce free radical damage is because
of the increase in the redox span in in
the mitochondria or what are the
mechanisms to do is to do with red ox
yes to do with the nad NADH ratio and
and production of that and and also in
the cytosol as well so so it’s through
the nad nad p system that you contain
radicals yeah great I mean I think any
other thoughts I mean I think that this
will be a for a good first introduction
introducing the availability of human
ketone which you know Delta G
partnership here
allowing this I think this massive
paradigm shift in technology and are
just kind of a reshuffle of our
understanding of physiology and making
this available to everyone so I think
it’s a huge accomplishment today and I
know that we probably open a ton of
questions and tons of different rabbit
holes that listeners out there and
interested folks out there are gonna
want to follow up on so I’m sure you
know our producer is gonna be feeling
some questions and we’ll have you back
on and perhaps address some of those
concerns and also perhaps three crafts
and works I think that’s where I you
know for me as a as a entrepreneur as an
innovator I like curved piecing the
future can we create the future in a way
that’s hopefully better for Humanity
rather than a dystopic future excellent
yes I agree so excited to continue the
conversation and send us a send us a
note send you know we’ll pass all the
questions that Kieran will latch on
together and as always follow us on
YouTube SoundCloud iTunes and Google
Play until next time we’ll see you then
thanks so much thanks so much Karen
bye-bye
[Music]
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