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Brianna Stubbs Geoff Woo Ketone Esters Ketones Podcasts Sports Performance Videos

Ketones for Athletic Performance ft. Brianna Stubbs || THINKING Podcast: Episode 25 (Pt.1)

October 8, 2018

To watch the YouTube Video: Ketones for Athletic Performance

Full Transcript:

welcome to this week’s thinking podcast
I’m your host Jeffrey Wu and I’m really
excited to have this week’s guest her
name is dr. Brianna Stubbs
and she’s world-class in a couple
different disciplines and I think that’s
very rare for just people in general
right you have people that are experts
in one specific field I think we’re
lucky to have someone that’s experts in
two very distinct fields so she just
recently finished her PhD in ketone
metabolism at Oxford University and her
side job has been a professional rower
on the Great Britain rowing team where
she recently won the 2016 World
Championship for the for personal
lightweight crew so I think she’s got a
ton of interesting information and
content for us today both in terms of
her science and research into the ketone
world as well as being a top performing
athlete so happy to have you here thank
you very much for having me thank you
so one thing that I think is very
interesting is that at nutri box in an
ER biohacking community we got into this
world of exogenous ketones ketosis
through fasting right so like a big part
of our mission has been let’s enhance
one of the core aspects of humanity our
cognition and obviously nootropics is
one interesting lover but two has been
fasting and a big part of fasting as
well lowering all calories especially
carbohydrates which means that we have
to elevate ketones or if the ptosis get
our bodies to use fats instead of
carbohydrates as our energy source and
that’s an interesting biological
phenomenon I’m curious to hear your
perspective and how you got into the
space of ketones
it was all very much
kind of by accident and it’s kind of a
funny story because I was an
undergraduate student in my first year
at university needed a little bit beer
money and I saw an advert for a study
and at the time I was rowing with the
Oxford University crew the study was
looking at rowing performance with or
without ketone drinks and I mean at that
point the biology kind of passed me by a
little bit I’m such like ah 50 pounds to
go and do rowing machine training and
pretty much what I’d be doing anyway
okay I’ll go and again involved oxes
seems like quite a cool place to be
doing a research study you know these
scientists probably pretty cool but I
didn’t think too much huh about what
18:19 yeah I was like basically still a
kid I’m just really enjoying being at
university it was a really immersive
experience anyway from home I was having
a great time and if only I’d known like
where it was like doing doing this study
was gonna take me and so I signed up and
I met the research team and it was being
led by Professor Karen Clark and Pete
Cox and they’re two of the most
fantastic scientists I’ve ever worked
with and Pete was running this study and
he was just so passionate about this
ketone drink that he was studying that
it really got me interested in the
biology then and doing the study they
had blinded me to the drink so they made
the control drink taste really foul and
then the ketone drink at that stage they
sort of working on it but it still was
quite bitter so didn’t know which drink
I was having and I did these two rowing
machine tests and didn’t necessarily
find out straightaway what the outcome
was but I kept in touch with Pete and
sort of when the study was finished he
shared the results with me and that was
that the ketone drink was seemed like it
was a really useful thing for athletic
performance and improving performance
and so that really like caught my
imagination and keeping in touch with
him gave me opportunities to kind of get
involved in the research as an
undergraduate student so I did my
undergraduate dissertation working with
Pete and Karen looking at the ketone
ester and then I decided that I was
going to pause my studies for a little
bit to focus on where I’m rowing career
which had kind of been like taking on
quite nicely while I was at university
so while I was gonna focus on the rowing
I wanted to get a job to help me pay the
rent and like feed myself although as a
lightweight Road I didn’t need to eat
much and it was it sort of it gave me
another really interesting angle on like
ketosis because because I was calorie
restricted quite a lot of the time my
body was almost definitely going into
ketosis more often than a normal athlete
so I’m anyway that aside I worked for
that for them for one year as a research
assistant and that was when I really
started diving a lot deeper into the
biology of ketosis and I was lucky
because my undergraduate had been
pre-med so I had quite a good grasp of
like the human system and also as an
you know if you’re switched on you can
get more out of yourself by
understanding your body so I was coming
at it from a place of being having a
really inquisitive mind and like a real
hunger to like find out about how
everything that I was changing about my
training and about my diet and you know
potentially supplementing with something
like ketones how was that gonna affect
my performance kind of as a
student-athlete because I was juggling
studying with the rowing so it was
working with them as a research
assistant and focusing on the rowing and
while I was doing that the opportunity
kind of arose to apply for a PhD and
that’s when I took it and then three of
three and a half years later I kind of
Here I am having won the World
Championships and also completed a PhD
and I remember there’s been so many
times along the way where I never
thought that I would get here and it’s a
fantastic kind of feeling to be able to
look back and see see what I’ve achieved
ya know I think just to give like
context of listeners out there I mean
being a world champion level athlete or
just a world class person any domain is
a full-time job and I’m doing a PhD on
top of that is another full-time job so
like I love that you know and later in
the conversation talk about how you
manage your routines and get so much
done in such a short period of time but
I think is going back to like like the
ketone itself yeah I think you come from
a very interesting background because I
think in most of nutrition and most of
biohacking you either have people that
are purely on academic sense or purely
like you know on the experimental like
I’m tinkering and feeling myself and I
think that on that spectrum as an as an
athlete like you almost treat your body
as a machine like purely in in what we
talk about a lot like treating your body
as a system inputs into that system are
very predictive of certain output so you
want to optimize for say but I think you
you probably have one of the most
intuitive grasps around all the possible
inputs into your system I think as well
you kind of get an appreciation of the
fact that what works for you might not
work as well for other people as well
and so getting this really strong sense
that you can give advice but people have
to really like own their own bodies and
make their own decisions about what
works for them
so what works for me might not work for
someone else quite as well but being
your optimal set-off involves taking a
bit of initiative and like being tuned
into yourself you can’t just there’s not
necessarily like ten steps to success
that works at every single person to get
their most optimal like performance well
I think that would be the Holy Grail
that that would be we wouldn’t want to
help solve right like I think all the
inputs are there just like we don’t know
how to quantify them just it might like
it’s like based on your genome it’s
based on like certain characteristics or
certain activities you want to optimize
for yeah but once you have like all
these puzzle pieces together then one
could theoretically yeah it’s gonna be
like a buffet right I mean it’s like
well for you because you’re like more
heavily like you’re an endurance athlete
you need to like really work on these
areas and you you’re a sprinter you
really need to work on these areas and
you you’re not an athlete at all but
you’re you know computer programmer
working really really long hours and
these are the things that you need to
address to make yourself optimal but
it’s about having like the toolkit or
the options available so that people can
equip themselves as they need to to
achieve their specific goals but they’re
tools that each person needs are gonna
be like slightly different I think
that’s where I think biohacking has a
populist movement you know really starts
making a sense because I think medic
medicine in healthcare today is very
much one size fits all you know like our
you know big insurance Big Pharma these
are the processes and we’re slapping
people through the system and it will
have to evolve into something that’s
much more personalized yeah and that’s a
whole I mean that’s a whole nother like
can of worms we couldn’t definitely dive
into as well yeah I want to just like
sort this zoom back out even you know
you know back to your childhood and your
upbringing I know that you were the
youngest person to cross the English
definitely youngest woman right back in
an in a rowing boat how you know like
how did you decide to you know I think
most of us growing up you know aren’t
like hey I want to like I don’t even
know how to be like the best of anything
or the first of anything like what’s
your story like how did you always just
like go for these high high high high
achievements I really like to credit my
dad for this he actually took part in
the first ever ocean rowing race from
Tenerife to Barbados across the
antek rowing race and he saw a newspaper
article that was like che Blythe seeks
men to take part in a challenge that
rivals Everest and he’s always had this
real like passion for pushing himself
and for doing extreme sports and for for
life just in general and that I was
brought up in like an atmosphere that
really like fostered that so as I was
growing up my dad was planning firstly
this row which happened in 97 so I was
about six and then after that he was
really bitten by the bug and it takes
quite a long time to plan these products
but he projects sorry but he actually
did made two more attempts on the North
Atlantic Ocean between me beings were
six and me being said so across the
Terra North Atlantic yes he wrote he
made it all the way across three
thousand thousands of miles but also
just even to get on the start line
fundraising to build the boat and equip
the boat and all of the training and
finding the team they weren’t supported
at all so they’re in the boat in the
middle of the ocean like by themselves
and so when you’re a kid and your dad’s
like in the middle of the ocean miles
from anywhere and doing this sort of
like extreme endeavor right it just
really makes you feel like anything’s
and he he always used to use this quote
by TE Lawrence that was like the
dreamers of the day a dangerous men
because they act out their dreams with
open eyes and make it possible and he
had that on a lot of his sort of them
stuff that he was sending out to sponsor
and I’m just really I was surrounded by
that as I was growing up and my parents
and neither of them went to university
no no one in my family had been to
university until I did and so it’s not
like I was coming from like a high
achieving academic background parents
you know and medical doctors or lawyer
and thing like that but they just always
encouraged me they and I know it sounds
cheesy to always tell your kids that
they can do anything but they did so I
remember my dad was he was planning his
one of his sort of other rows and I went
into his study and I was like what can I
do what can I do you can I can only like
do something with you can I go and row
the channel and I think that like
planted a seed with him and then it just
sort of came together he obviously had
the boat and the team and they were
doing that sort of training and it
worked but I remember I did my first
ever like competitive sport race aged
about I think I was seven my dad would
take me training and we lived by the
beach and by some cliffs and there was
exactly and he used to make me run up
path until it was sick and used to love
it he’s a little tiny little girl and
he’d be like they’re shouting at me to
go faster and he just he just always
encouraged me and never he taught me
that there were no boundaries and to put
and to push myself as well and yeah he’s
he was a fantastic figure in my life for
them no it’s fascinating
I mean I think a lot of us I mean
especially in America you grow up
playing some sort of sport so like I was
in a why I so soccer played basketball I
you know started focusing on tennis and
played tennis you know fairly
competitively up tyndall you know
playing high school we were like the
number two ranked team in in tennis in
California which is a pretty competitive
state but like I never was like hey I
plan to be like a professional tennis
player like was there a point where I
was like oh I’m not I’m like not just
good at this I could like really be a
world champ you know that was there like
a turning point when you’re like young
or is it just like this is fun I’m
pretty good at it yeah it was a turning
point there so the actual turning point
like what you were just describing
actually happened really only when I
decided to take time off my medical
degree because I was really really
driven academically as well you know
applying to Oxford I got a scholarship
to go so it was to a Sikh film school
where I could do the rowing as well so I
had always been academic and sport like
kind of running both tracks parallel and
actually I never really ever really I
don’t think I ever really won anything
until I won the under-23 World
Championships you know I was always like
second or third or fourth you know I was
always and a lot of people who when I
was like 15 16 who were beating me at
rowing dropped out and I just like wow a
lot of people just don’t didn’t do
staying power
I mean sport is really hard yeah I’m
especially when you’re growing up as a
kid there are loads of other things you
want to do and I think everyone reaches
that point at some point in their life
and I guess now I’m at a point where I’m
thinking about my athletic career and
whether or not I carry on or not and but
that’s this is the first time that I’ve
ever contemplated not doing sport and
some people just get there earlier
they’re kind of like well I want to be a
student go out and enjoy you know
meeting people and socializing or
traveling you know there’s just so much
to do and it’s like what you decide to
pour yourself into and
ie whenever I speak to like groups of
kids I always say that I was never the
best until I was the best like very
recently and it was more just because I
kept at it and kept at it and kept at it
but you know it doesn’t work out for
everyone right and it has worked out for
me but maybe not even to the extent that
has worked out for other people and that
I’ve never been to the Olympic Games I’d
like to think I’d have been good enough
to compete at the Olympic Games but but
I’ve never had that opportunity you know
so it’s there’s only a small percentage
of fairy stories and it just you know
depends whether you get enough out of
doing sport to make it worth your while
and I think that rowing has always given
me like a massive self a sense of self
confidence and self-belief and like you
have to be really meticulous and it’s
always taught me so much and like really
formed me into the person that I am
today and so I think the more you
persist with it as a kid
the more you get out of it long-term but
I see why what the distractions are and
it doesn’t mean that you’re any less of
a person if you decide to pursue
something else because you know you have
to be brave to make that decision as
well rather than just carrying on
because because ya know I think I think
I was like one thing that I realized
growing up was that there’s a lot of
smart people a lot of like deep like
reasonably capable people but I think
the people who make it across or like
people who like are persistent yeah
right it’s like people took themselves
out of the competition yeah yeah they
could have had potential like if you’re
like the last person standing well yeah
yeah interesting so like it was only
ours and put in the graft and keep
backing yourself because that’s where
you get to you know I I wanna bronze
medals all the way through sort of like
and then in the national level all the
way through sort of like 15 16 or 17 and
I won a silver medal at the junior what
I managed to get selected for the Junior
World Championships and that was my
first international representation aged
18 but what had happened the year before
that was that I’d been there like this
the next ranked person from being on the
team and I remember I think I was like
17 at the time and you go and you do
like a a week-long selection camp and
then you do loads and those of racing’s
physically very tough and when you’re a
seventeen year old girl emotionally
really tough as well I remember the
coaches went into the meeting and they
came out and my coach told me that they
thought I wasn’t going and but I was the
next ranked person and
and in fact they’d given the spot for
the spare spot so I wasn’t even spare
they’d given the spare spot to someone
who hadn’t even been at this selection
and yeah because they thought that she
could at that stage I couldn’t do sweet
broening and sculling so what Ike was
only a too or athlete not a 1 or deftly
as well so they’ve given it to someone
who could do both and I can see why they
did that but I always got it because I
thought that was my spot and I remember
crying the whole way home and next year
coming back and being like um I’m in
this now and so things like good
response right yeah I think a lot of
people like fuck it I’m done yes is your
response to failure as well as yours
like not like screw this I’m gonna come
back and like show prove you yeah yeah I
know chip on the shoulder perhaps as
well like going back to when people
decide whether or not they’re gonna
carry it on I think so I went to a camp
that was run by Dame Kelly Holmes and I
don’t know whether American listeners
would have heard of her but she was a
famous British athlete who won gold
medals at the I think it was a Beijing
Olympics in both 800-meter track and
field and the 1,500 meter track and
field in the same year and so I went to
a camp that she was running and one
thing that she said that really stuck
with me was never ever stop when you’re
run alone because she had a lot of
problems with injury and things like
that and she was like if you’re on a
high and you want to stop then it’s the
right time but I think quite a lot of
people make the mistake of like getting
kicked down and then they’re like oh
this is way too hard I’m gonna stop and
so I think you’re much more and much
more powerful position to make that
decision like objectively if you’re
successful like if you’re successful and
you want to move on and do another
challenge then you know that’s a much
more powerful place to make that
decision that’s actually interesting
because it kind of reminds me of a quote
that I or story I’m up like from from a
like so I did Wykeham Raider which is
like a startup accelerator thing that’s
you know relatively prestigious for my
first company glass map and then Mark
Zuckerberg was a speaker there and he
had like an interesting quote that I
think it’s like very similar where it’s
like you’re never as like like in every
cycle of any company or any endeavor
there’s like you get blown up as like
you’re the best company ever or like
you’re a failure you’re like you’re the
worst company ever like and he was
saying that you just like don’t believe
like how good people say you are and
don’t like
and you’re never as bad as people say
you are yeah so it’s like I think it’s
like that decision-making process right
like you don’t want to be making
decisions when you’re like you guys huge
yeah on one hand but you don’t also want
to be making like decisions when you’re
like you’re really low when people are
saying like oh you know Facebook is like
a worst company ever like it’s just like
some way to pick up you know girlfriends
or boyfriends yeah you know your college
yeah so I think all the best things go
through like iterations where people
have struggled you know but then equally
things that might seem really successful
right now that might like not
necessarily be the way it turns out and
so I kind of relating that back to my
own story all the people pretty much all
of the people that were winning gold
medals when I was fifteen and you know
the national championships was like the
end of the world you know oh no I only
one you know bronze this person’s won
gold they’re the next big thing and
actually now they never made anything of
their own I’m a world champion so right
you know it’s powered through yeah
so how do you decide note that you know
a lot of student athletes are much more
athletes than students right like the
honest to be honest right like I think
that’s I’ve been like just a controversy
and like American yeah collegiate
athletes and it sounds like you were not
just like a student athlete emphasis on
athlete you were legitimately like yeah
you know at a world-class ph.d program
that you just recently completed so like
how were you able to balance that how
why’d you decide to pull triggers on
both because I think that’s like you
know it’s like almost abiding more than
a typical hardworking person she was
like not just being ambitious on one
thing like yeah be really ambitious on
two things at the same time I think I
probably didn’t know exactly what I was
letting myself in for before I was kind
of in and like just struggling to keep
my head above water there was a point
when I’d been doing the program was in
the British rowing program and the ph.d
program for about three or four months
and I remember I was sick from doing the
training and knackered from doing
studying as well and I remember sitting
in my car in tears on the phone to my
parents as being like I can’t do this
and I had a meeting with my supervisor
Karen Clark and she was like you should
stop doing your PhD in like because
you’ve already good at the rowing and
you should
throwing and you know you can’t carry on
doing both and there was a sort of like
crisis point quite early on in and I was
like this is just not gonna work
what I had to do then was take a step
back and work out a way to make both fit
because the
typical schedule for a PhD student was
just not compatible with the typical
schedule for an athlete so I had to find
for the for the rowing teams I had to
find a way to make both of them work and
actually I think the solution that I
came up with in terms of just my week
schedule was actually was really optimal
for me because it gave me headspace when
I wasn’t rowing to you know studying
really helped me switch off from rowing
and that was just for me it was a good
outlet both of them worked from one
another when one of them was a radiator
the other one was a sink and they kind
of complemented each other it was only
crap when both of them weren’t going
very well but that luckily that didn’t
happen very often at least when you’re
sick and you can’t train you could kind
of do the work and read papers and
things like that so they did complement
one another in the end but though it
wasn’t a match made in heaven and I
ended up doing the two almost by a happy
accident you know taking the time off
medical school because I didn’t want to
go and do my clinical training because I
knew that I would be away on placements
which would mean that it was quite
difficult for me to do the training
train yeah yes so I thought thought that
giving me doing a PhD a research degree
would give me a little bit more
flexibility with my time and that was
the case because luckily I had a really
fantastic supervisor Karen she gave me a
lot of freedom with my schedule and once
I built that trust with her and what she
once you start delivering for people
they back you and I think in that
initial three months the way was
difficult as well I was trying to create
an impression of myself for her and for
all of my other research colleagues in
the lab that I was that I was the real
deal that I was going to work hard and I
wasn’t just doing it just as a free pass
to do the rowing because and there were
some comments that people made like you
know you’re here to do a PhD at Oxford
not to be in a row and I took all of
that very personally and I was just
desperately trying to convince them that
I was sure that I was committed and then
on the other hand I had their rowing
people being like oh you’re a part-timer
like but then when you start delivering
the results at trials and you
consistently I know I’m taking my PBS
and people can’t argue with results
right so you have to find a way of
getting results right the solution for
you it might not be the way that either
party would want but so long as long as
results people happy and I had
conversations with like the head of the
British rowing team and they were like
you know up until now your results your
results are good but we think they’d be
better if you weren’t doing your PhD and
I’d argue with them not to their face
but I would would argue that actually
why would it be better you can as an
athlete you develop at the speed that
you’re gonna develop you can do
everything you can to accelerate it but
I’ve been down time recovery yeah and
it’s like okay if I’m not gonna be
working out I might as well be reading
like yes papers yeah and there have been
parts where like doing that sort of
thing and doing my PhD has been like
physically not the best recovery because
I’d be getting up super super early and
fitting in sessions before I’d go and do
experiments and there I mean there was
even one ridiculous time where I was
running a an experiment on a rat heart
and you had to stand and sort of
supervise this well all the science was
going on and I was just standing and I
was like I’m late for training now I
wasn’t meant to go to the gym and I was
part of my session that I was meant to
do was like 20 minutes of bodyweight
squats and I was like well I’m just
standing here in the lab like I’m gonna
get like a bench and I’ll stand here and
I’ll do my bodyweight squats here and
everyone else in the lab was like well
training yeah yeah I just standing there
my heart was beating and I was doing
squats you know just gotta find like
creative ways to use your time like
that’s a bit of an extreme example I
didn’t do that like routinely but I
would routinely be in the lab on the
exercise bike and then finish half an
hour before I had research participants
coming in and like just go grab a shower
grab something to eat like boom straight
on to the science you know it’s just
about efficiencies and yeah I think
that’s what like that’s awesome I mean I
think it’s what we’re all about like we
have all the same amount of time yeah
and if you’re just like you know and
clearly some people do more out of their
time in other words right let’s get all
sort of like help promote people you
know different techniques and tips to
help people get the most out of their
life hey like I think that’s like it’s a
noble mission that
I think we all can agree to like let’s
help people be better versions of
themselves and I think like the longer
that I initially when I started doing
that I had mountains and mountains of
energy for it a lot a lot more and as it
was sort of as I’ve got a little bit
older and been doing it for longer I
have had to like protect a bit more down
time for myself to like recharge
emotionally and mentally to be able to
do the stuff that I do physically and so
now like something that I’ve started to
build into my routine is like meditation
ten minutes a day and I struggled
sometimes I struggled to find time for
that but it is only ten minutes and if
you protect that time then you do it
whenever I can if I’m honest okay I’m
not I’m not in a good enough routine
with it yet but I think it’s something
that’s really trying to be mindful about
protecting that time and doing that is
something that’s added to my output
during the day and I never used to have
to Mindy are you like a pretty rigorous
pair like an alarm clock like I wish I
could be I’m not that disciplined with
that yeah I’m I get like I tried it in
the morning nice at the time yeah yeah
I’ve been trying to get that in at the
end of the day for myself but yeah it’s
hard to it’s hard it’s busy is like I
think if are we consistent it you know I
guess if I took the attitude that I take
into my athletic performance like I need
to do it I’m gonna do it then and then
of course I would do it I just what
other you know tips of the trade would
you would you have to recommend or have
stories that I mean I think clearly like
you figured out like some sort of
routine that allows you to be super
productive yeah like any other things
besides meditation I think getting
enough sleep was really really important
for me and again like I was never
perfect but you it was just about being
aware so it would be like okay I’ve got
I’m really tired during the day at the
moment hmm my bed time started to creep
back from being like 10 and now it’s
more like like 10:45 always your typical
protocol like like yes so early on would
go off at about half-past five I needed
a little bit of time to kind of like get
up and going in the morning and I found
that was like I’m quite productive in
the morning so sometimes if I had a lot
of work on or if I was organizing a
research study I’d get up and use a
little bit I’d have to I have about 45
minutes before I’d have to leave in the
morning so while my breakfast was kind
of making
as I was making breakfast I’d kind of
just get a look in my mind straight what
I needed to do that day and if there are
any emails that needed to be sent or any
any like little bits of admin that I
could do in that little bit of time I
would do that then then I would drive to
the British training center which is
about 45 minute drive and that journey
could be like I used that for whatever I
wanted so I mean they’re like listen to
music if I wanted to de-stress or if I
was quite like keyed up about stuff I
had used that time to like listen to
podcasts or you know actually that time
rather than being this like time that
was wasted became quite like a valuable
source of whatever I was yeah either
either that kind of relaxation or
content right then we would do I would
always I think something that became
really important in my like athletic
routine was making time to stretch and
just get your body like fully prepped
ready for the workout so that you’re
when you go into it you’re getting the
most out of it and also helping to avoid
injury that was something I didn’t do as
much when I was younger and now I it’s a
really important part of my like pre
workout routine and it kind of evolved
over time so I used to kind of just do
you know likes down there it’ll hold
your quad a little bit and like maybe
sort of do some lunges but I you really
got into practicing yoga and sort of
doing more like there’s a begin of the
day still this is like seven this is oh
yeah we’re about we’re probably at like
7:15 okay so I’ll be at the training
centre and I’ll do sort of like 15
minutes 20 minutes of stretching before
we then go out and we go rowing the
rowing takes about an hour and a half
and so it can be it’s important to have
clear goals for this session and kind of
clear expectations of what you’re
looking to achieve and how you’re going
to measure those goals and because it’s
such a long workout it’s hard to kind of
keep your concentration all all the time
but if you beat yourself up about the
fact that are not concentrating all the
time then that’s really
counterproductive as well so it kind of
goes back to you’re talking about
mindfulness so like okay I’m aware that
now I’m thinking about work okay what’s
the technical goal that I’m working on
this session or what’s the speed goal
I’m now going to focus back in on that
mind and training yeah – oh you get much
more of out training if you’re engaged
with that but it is also recognizing
that you’re not going to be engaged all
the time over like
minute session where you’re just kind of
going round and round in circles
backwards like rowing it’s quite um
meditative kind of hypnotic sport
because you’re just doing the rowing
stroke over and over again and when you
kind of get into the flow state with it
it just kind of takes off but then
contrastingly if it’s all four
conditions or freezing cold or really
windy it can just be like pushing a
boulder up a hill and it’s just it’s
like why am I here
and it’s just only 8:30 yeah oh you’re
almost finished by the time it’s 8:30
say start 7:30 and we get up we finished
between like 9:00 and 9:15 and then
after that it’s really important to
refuel properly after the session so my
name cooked a little day yes I know you
talked a little bit about the ketogenic
diet but rowing training is like quite a
mixture of high intensity and

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